Use of the word Neurotypical

Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
edited March 28 in General ASD
I just watched a video on sociopathy and it referred to non sociopaths as "Nurotypical's"

Never heard this before,really never outside of non-autism really.

I could see  it used as non-ADD or non-schizophrenic maybe but non-sociopath?
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Comments

  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    Neurotypical is a relative term, not an absolute definition
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    verity said:
    Neurotypical is a relative term, not an absolute definition
    It's looking that way it seems,would be nice if autism had a term but I guess it's been stolen LOL
  • AmityAmity Administrator, Citizen
    Im guessing it was used as a way of differentiating between sociopathy and non sociopathy.

    Neurotypical is a term I never heard of until I learned about autism, I've seen it used to differentiate for context purposes and also for othering and division purposes.

    How many people are actually neurologically typical anyway and wouldnt they need a diagnostic assessment to establish their typicality 😋.

    I prefer autistic and non autistic.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Amity said:
    Im guessing it was used as a way of differentiating between sociopathy and non sociopathy.


    That is how it was used; Neurotypical as meaning non-sociopath.

    I had never heard it used outside of autism either.
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    edited March 29
    People are very contentious about definitions.

    There is a camp who will say there is no diagnosis of Sociopath any more, only Anti-Social Personality Disorder/Psychopathy, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, etc.

    Psychopathy is often divided into two types one of which overlaps quite a bit with sociopathy

    Note: at one time autism was consider a form of sociopathy called autistic sociopathy. I believe Hans Asperger used that term.

    However historically there was broader definition used to describe many social conditions, not pathological sociopathy as we understand it.

    Today Autism is not considered sociapathy becuase it doesn't meet the definition.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    verity said:
    People are very contentious about definitions.

    There is a camp who will say there is no diagnosis of Sociopath any more, only Anti-Social Personality Disorder/Psychopathy, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, etc.

    Psychopathy is often divided into two types one of which overlaps quite a bit with sociopathy

    Note: at one time autism was consider a form of sociopathy called autistic sociopathy. I believe Hans Asperger used that term.

    However historically there was broader definition used to describe many social conditions, not pathological sociopathy as we understand it.

    Today Autism is not considered sociapathy becuase it doesn't meet the definition.
    It's dicey what is sociopath these days,psychiatrically it's likely a sub-divide of "Narcissistic personality disorder " woulld be my guess maybe.
  • Teach51Teach51 Citizen
    Mona Pereth taught me this word. When I said I was NT (Neurotypical) on another site, she pointed out that if I have ADD then I am not neurotypical. I believe this word is misused and overused. Is anyone neurotypical? I assumed the word to mean "absence of neurological pathology or deviance from the accepted norm." I may indeed be wrong.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Teach51 said:
    Mona Pereth taught me this word. When I said I was NT (Neurotypical) on another site, she pointed out that if I have ADD then I am not neurotypical. I believe this word is misused and overused. Is anyone neurotypical? I assumed the word to mean "absence of neurological pathology or deviance from the accepted norm." I may indeed be wrong.
    I would accept Neurotypical as valid for  non-ADD, but non-sociopath is a bit disturbing though to me.
  • Teach51Teach51 Citizen
    In the autistic community neurotypical usually means non- autistic
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Teach51 said:
    In the autistic community neurotypical usually means non- autistic
    Right
  • Hans Asperger believed that the subjects of his research had "Autistic Psychopathy." 

    He wasn't using "psychopathy" under the modern definition of the term.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Hans Asperger believed that the subjects of his research had "Autistic Psychopathy." 

    He wasn't using "psychopathy" under the modern definition of the term.
    Even today psychopathy is a blurry term and likely a sub-divide of Narcissistic personality disorder today.
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    edited March 29
    Statest16 said:
    Hans Asperger believed that the subjects of his research had "Autistic Psychopathy." 

    He wasn't using "psychopathy" under the modern definition of the term.
    Even today psychopathy is a blurry term and likely a sub-divide of Narcissistic personality disorder today.

    Not sure I agree. Psychopathy can be narcissistic, however there is no requirement of Psychopaths to seek the approval of others.

    If anything Psychopaths don't nessiarily care.

    The motivation for narcissistic crimes is somewhat different to psychopathic crimes. A narcissistic person will target some for representational reasons, a psychopath will target people becuase they enjoy the act in of itself, or they view people as disposable. Some of them do so with no obvious status advantage.

    Of course these can overlap and be co-morbids, but as models they are describing differ things.

    The reason why they say CEO are often called psychopaths, is becuase they make decision that someone more altruistic would struggle with. However you can amke a case for Narcissism too.

    If you were to say that one was a sub-set of the other it would logical be the other way round, however I don't thsi that is all that useful as a model.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    According to healthline.com
    A sociopath is a common term,colloquial if you will for "Antisocial personality disorder" or "ASPD"

    That seems to be the psychiatric definition as of now.
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    Statest16 said:
    According to healthline.com
    A sociopath is a common term,colloquial if you will for "Antisocial personality disorder" or "ASPD"

    That seems to be the psychiatric definition as of now.
    yes

    Mainly they make these distinctions to make their job easier. There are still professional that use psychopathy as a model more in term of the dark triad  rather than for diagnosis.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    verity said:
    Statest16 said:
    According to healthline.com
    A sociopath is a common term,colloquial if you will for "Antisocial personality disorder" or "ASPD"

    That seems to be the psychiatric definition as of now.
    yes

    Mainly they make these distinctions to make their job easier. There are still professional that use psychopathy as a model more in term of the dark triad  rather than for diagnosis.
    And diagnostics change often and any terminology or jargon and be difficult for lay people.
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    edited March 29
    Statest16 said:
    And diagnostics change often and any terminology or jargon and be difficult for lay people.
    Psychologist do a lot of behavioural work and research but diagnostics is controlled through psychiatrists. So many professional take the diagnosis then use their own model based on that for their work.

  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    verity said:
    Statest16 said:
    And diagnostics change often and any terminology or jargon and be difficult for lay people.
    Psychologist do a lot of behavioural work and research but diagnostics is controlled through psychiatrists. So many professional take the diagnosis then use their own model based on that for their work.

    You sound like you know a lot about this
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    Statest16 said:
    Psychologist do a lot of behavioural work and research but diagnostics is controlled through psychiatrists. So many professional take the diagnosis then use their own model based on that for their work.

    You sound like you know a lot about this
    More of an armchair interest😊

  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    verity said:
    Statest16 said:
    Psychologist do a lot of behavioural work and research but diagnostics is controlled through psychiatrists. So many professional take the diagnosis then use their own model based on that for their work.

    You sound like you know a lot about this
    More of an armchair interest😊

    True crime would be my armchair interest.Check the Chauvin trial it's on youtbe
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    Statest16 said:
    More of an armchair interest😊

    True crime would be my armchair interest.Check the Chauvin trial it's on youtbe

    Was watching some of it, till the break. I like true crime, from the pathology side and also the psychology side.

    I also like archaeological cold case work. Like forensic anthropologist Sue Black. She chased help catch paedophiles and testified in murder trials, but also work on historic remains going back as far as 2,000 years ago.
  • A better word for "not autistic" is "allistic."
  • AmityAmity Administrator, Citizen
    edited April 3
    A better word for "not autistic" is "allistic."

    Its a term I stumble with, it made more sense when I read about how it came into being.

    Allistic is a term that members of the autistic community came up with. While the earliest mention I can find (Zefram, Fysh.org, 2003) is constructed to work in a parody, the word construction makes a lot of sense. So much so, in fact, that Zefram’s work isn’t known to many community members now using the term. In Zefram’s postscript, it is explained that the construction is based on the way that the word “autistic” is constructed:

    The word “allism”, invented for this article, is intended to precisely complement “autism”.
    It is based on the Greek word “allos”, meaning “other”,  just as “autos” (in “autism”) means
    “self”. […]

    This explanation of “allistic”‘s construction continues to be in use. As some might note, the relative constructions of “autistic” and “allistic” are not dissimilar to the relationship between the words “transgender” and “cisgender.”  Even if the alternative was developed to suit the needs of politically charged parody, allistic is linguistically a more accurate term than some of the alternatives.


    https://crackedmirrorinshalott.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/autistic-allistic-neurodiverse-and-neurotypical-say-what/


  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    I think NT makes more sense than allistic but's my opinion.I am a known renegade in disability thinking.

    I don't know why people make such a stink about "cisgender" it's just Latin for "in favor of your gender" nothing insulting toward cis people
  • verityverity Administrator, Citizen
    I prefer just to think of these terms as relative markers that they are so don't have a preference. I take a pragmatic view, I'm not minded to come up as definite label for groups by virtue of being opposite.

    Satire has its place however.
  • Mona_PerethMona_Pereth Citizen
    edited April 4
    Statest16 said:
    I think NT makes more sense than allistic but's my opinion.I am a known renegade in disability thinking.

    Why does NT make more sense than allistic, as a word to indicate "non-autistic"?

    Do you consider a non-autistic person with ADHD to be NT?  Do you consider a non-autistic intellectually disabled person to be NT?

    I would say that they are allistic but not NT.

    I think "neurotypical" is still a useful word, but I consider NT's to be a subset of allistic people.

  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Statest16 said:
    I think NT makes more sense than allistic but's my opinion.I am a known renegade in disability thinking.

    Why does NT make more sense than allistic, as a word to indicate "non-autistic"?

    Do you consider a non-autistic person with ADHD to be NT?  Do you consider a non-autistic intellectually disabled person to be NT?

    I would say that they are allistic but not NT.

    I think "neurotypical" is still a useful word, but I consider NT's to be a subset of allistic people.

    Your certainly entitled your opinion.
  • Statest16 said:
    Statest16 said:
    I think NT makes more sense than allistic but's my opinion.I am a known renegade in disability thinking.

    Why does NT make more sense than allistic, as a word to indicate "non-autistic"?

    Do you consider a non-autistic person with ADHD to be NT?  Do you consider a non-autistic intellectually disabled person to be NT?

    I would say that they are allistic but not NT.

    I think "neurotypical" is still a useful word, but I consider NT's to be a subset of allistic people.

    Your certainly entitled your opinion.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion too.  I was just wondering about the reasons for your opinion.
  • Statest16Statest16 Citizen, Mentor
    Statest16 said:
    Statest16 said:
    I think NT makes more sense than allistic but's my opinion.I am a known renegade in disability thinking.

    Why does NT make more sense than allistic, as a word to indicate "non-autistic"?

    Do you consider a non-autistic person with ADHD to be NT?  Do you consider a non-autistic intellectually disabled person to be NT?

    I would say that they are allistic but not NT.

    I think "neurotypical" is still a useful word, but I consider NT's to be a subset of allistic people.

    Your certainly entitled your opinion.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion too.  I was just wondering about the reasons for your opinion.
    Because "Neuroptypical" means a person who neuro system is wired typically as opposed to Neuologically different.

    But what does Allistic even mean,by allistic it almost sounds if allisitics are a more whole person or something.

    Neurotypical means different but allistic implies better or more together.
  • I see, to you "allistic" has a connotation that it doesn't have for me.  I'm curious to hear why it has such a connotation for you, if there's a reason for it that you can put into words.  Connotations are subjective, though usually there are specific cultural associations with a given word that can be pointed to.

    The origin of the word "allistic" is the Greek word "allos," meaning "other," just as "autistic" is derived from the Greek word "autos," meaning "self."  So it seems to me that "allistic" is a natural antonym for "autistic".  Did you have a different impression of the origin of the word "allistic," or does it have some other cultural association for you unrelated to its origin?






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